Flaunt Your Fire

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73. Showing Up Authentically in the Speaking Industry with Evolve Benton and Erica Courdae

Flaunt Your Fire
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Visibility Needs Transparency

So often we have a desire to be visible. But there’s also a distinct lack of transparency in the visibility industry, whether you’re an influencer, a photographer, a model, a speaker, even musicians and actors.

It’s really challenging to figure out what other people charge. And what you should, could, or can charge to collaborate with a brand or appear as a speaker.

We don’t discuss what we charge or what qualifications we use to justify our rates. And that lack of transparency has real consequences for the industry.

Evolve Benton joins India and Erica for a discussion on the speaking industry, how to diversify speaking, and using publicity and speaking as means of financial freedom.

Listen on your favorite podcast player or keep reading to learn:

  • Why you need to speak in, as well as out with your goals and affirmations

  • Why professional communities need to allow us to be our whole selves

  • How to set pricing that honors your capacity, needs, and the value you bring

  • Why asking for more is about more than just you

Growing Cultures That Create Impact

Evolve Benton (they/King) is a speaker, educator, and curator who inspires audiences to think about the intersection of performance, diversity, inclusion, transformation, climate, and equality. They are the founder of MAR Media, LLC  through which they offer services as an Educational Consultant and are lead coach and founder of online educational platform Speaking 4 Profit University. They are the author of SIR: poetry dedicated to boihood and black queer love and the creator of The BOI Doc, and the BOI Meets Wellness podcast.

Evolve has a passion for social justice and real change and loves to help organizations grow culture that creates impacts for years to come. Evolve has over 10 years of experience in the diversity, equity and inclusion space and believes that the next decade is all about companies moving into action, healing and creating inclusive environments for diverse talent to thrive.

How Evolve Flaunts Their Fire

On the Flaunt Your Fire® Podcast, Evolve Benton (they/King) says that Flaunting Their Fire means connecting globally through social media and creating a space to share “the key parts of our brand, the key parts of ourselves, in a really beautiful way.”

They are also fueled by words of affirmation in their own voice. “Being able to call myself beautiful, being able to say ‘I love you, Evolve,’ being able to say, ‘I’m proud of you,’...that’s something that’s really fueling me.

They’re also excited about work that one of their clients is doing to create a supportive coaching space for women of color.

Speaking Truth, Freedom, and Abundance

Evolve says that they coined the term “speaking for prophecy” as they realized that through speaking and teaching people how to make money from that, “I found what we were really doing was speaking about our dreams. We were speaking about the things that we wanted to bring into the light and manifest.”

They realized, “we’re not just speaking for profit, we’re not just speaking for money. We’re speaking the truth and the freedom and the financial freedom and the abundance that we want in our lives.”

They continue, “Speaking for prophecy is really being transparent about how you want your future to be, and speaking it out loud.”

In practice, that means incorporating things like a pre-talk ritual of affirmations about why they’re doing the work and what they want to see and manifest and connecting that to financial freedom and the opportunities and changes that financial freedom would bring.

“Speaking that, seeing that, manifesting that, and connecting with it on a daily, monthly, quarterly basis, however your capacity shows up. But making sure that you’re not just speaking out, that you’re speaking in as well.”

Erica says that for many people, the word “prophecy” might feel too big, “particularly for people that have had so much of their greatness shrunken for them,” but that it is vitally important to “reclaim those things that are bigger, that really are a part of our heritage…and to remember that our voice is a gift.”

Erica distinguishes this kind of manifesting from the sometimes toxic positivity of typical “law of attraction” thinking that doesn’t acknowledge the full spectrum of emotions.

“Being able to navigate that and reclaim that…I think being able to do that gives you…this capacity for me to figure out what does freedom look and feel like for me, and how can I get there, and how can I do it with the tools that I already have that maybe I’ve just been kind of swayed away from, and I have to just come back home.”

Evolve agrees and says that speaking for prophecy isn’t just about positivity, but is also about speaking boundaries.

Their affirmations help them “set up boundaries for people who are trying to deplete me or take away my life force, take away my energy. And that’s just as powerful as me saying, ‘I want a really nice car.’”

Building Community and Collaboration

Evolve says that one of the key pillars of Speaking 4 Profit University is community. 

In their experience, many entrepreneurs take a competition over collaboration approach, but “I know for a fact that I would not be where I’m at if it was not for my community.”

They continue, “I believe that community is the life force that keeps you going and keeps you doing your work in a way that’s as authentic and easeful as possible…I want abundance with ease. I’ve worked hard enough. My ancestors have worked hard enough. I want it with ease and I want collaboration with ease.”

Building a community for collaboration is more than just swapping blog posts or guest appearances, “but really [having] a sense of being there for a person, even when they’re having some of those fears and challenges and a moment to check in.”

Evolve continues to meet with a group they met several years ago in a mastermind, and says that they don’t really even talk about business. “We talk about our lives. We talk about the different ways that we can uplift each other’s work. And that’s what I mean by…[collaboration] and it really being able to move your brand forward.”

Erica agrees and says “I think there’s such a need for understanding that being in community when it’s talked about in the professional space is so much more than ‘let’s talk numbers and figures and marketing’...The most powerful relationships that I have and the connections that really do foster the best outcomes…these are with people that show up as they are.”

She adds, “When your humanity can show up at the table, I do think that really does give a much better launchpad…when it comes to speaking for prophecy and the entire collaboration and community concept. That can’t happen if you can’t show up as your whole self.”

India says that being willing to go deeper with people, “you’re also building a deeper connection with them. There’s more emotional investment when they know what your day to day challenges are, what your wins are.”

Evolve says that they talk with their students not just about what their goals are, but also about what challenges might be coming up for that goal. “Let’s be honest about the things that are around your environment that might create a little bit more pressure around the goals.”

Erica and India share that they have similar weekly check-ins where they go over what’s on their schedules and also what might get in the way.

“It’s been so interesting to notice the difference in not just output and what we’re able to complete, but also how we’re able to do it and not feel depleted at the end of it all, because we’re able to have that check-in.”

Bringing Diverse Voices to the Industry

Evolve says that when they first began speaking, they didn’t realize how much the industry lacked diversity.

“I was in my niche. I was going to DEI events, I was going to more student affairs types of events. I was seeing myself. And it wasn’t until I started to look at the income, to see how much speakers are getting paid on the higher end and who those speakers were, where I started to see a lot of the gaps.”

As they continued to research speaking fees, they consistently found that those at the higher end of the spectrum were largely cis, white, and male.

“And then I started looking at their YouTube pages and I was like, they boring….Why are they getting paid all this money? And then I realized, they figured out the game. They figured out their niche. They figured out their value.”

Evolve recalls being on a call with a prospective student, who was a white man, who told Evolve that he wouldn’t consider a speaking engagement that paid less than $15,000.

“Whereas I get on a call with LGBT folks, trans folks, women of color, Black women in particular, and they’re like…I speak for free, for $500, it seems like a lot…There’s a gap in understanding in this industry, the impact that our voices have, and that we’re afraid to ask for more.”

They say the issue isn’t just diversifying the industry, but making sure that diverse speakers are paid well for the value they bring to organizations.

“I was telling people you could be getting paid the same amount as a software engineer if you really put the skill together and market it in a way where it’s changing organizations and changing lives.”

They continue, “When we are able to go into a space and they don’t have to onboard someone new because they figured out how to build an inclusive space for their trans folks, we’re saving them hundreds of thousands of dollars. So why wouldn’t we be asking for that much in exchange?”

Valuing Your Needs

Erica says that while she doesn’t love trying to put a direct correlation between DEI work and return on investment, it’s always worth considering what you might be saving a company in money and time when you think about your pricing. 

“Those are things that should be considered when you think about how you are pricing things and you should not discount your own need and entitlement to financial freedom. Because I tell you what, the boring white dude didn’t have a second thought of it.”

Evolve agrees. “Why should you have a second thought on your value?...We don’t ask for more as Black folks, as LGBTQ folks…So I tell all of my students…Always ask for more. And it’s not just about the finances, it’s about boundaries.”

Asking for more might mean asking for food and drink, specific things to be available to you to help you prepare, transportation, or whatever else you need to get comfortable and excited.

Evolve says, “We need to also realize that when we’re asking for more, it’s creating a space for us to over deliver and really share in an authentic way and create an experience that is gonna change that audience’s life.”

India agrees that when you consider pricing, you have to include things like transportation costs, hair and makeup or wardrobe, even whatever self care you might require after an event.

She says those needs may not always translate to dollar amounts directly in your fee, but might be provided by or sponsored by another partner, depending on the event, but to make sure you’re taking all of your needs into consideration.

Transparency in Pricing

India says it can be especially difficult for newcomers to the industry to set their pricing, because there is so little transparency about speaking fees and what gets included as part of that fee.

“I think that lack of transparency in the industry contributes to people not asking for…their value because they don’t know what the standard is.”

Evolve says that’s true, and that new speakers can even underprice themselves out of work when they submit a very low speaking fee.

“If you get a scope of work and you say, $3,000, and that organization knows that that scope of work should be $30,000, they’re gonna look past you because…you don’t have an understanding of the labor that’s gonna go into this project.”

They say they use two methods for pricing.

The first way they consider pricing is through the lens of capacity. “What is your capacity to be able to do this, and how much do you want to get paid?”

That math is fairly straightforward, if, for example, you want to speak twice a month and make $10,000. Your fee can’t be less than $5,000.

They say it’s important to consider your capacity and the amount of labor that goes into a speaking engagement if you don’t want to burn out.

They also recommend researching what common rates are in your industry, and directly asking organizations about their past and current speaker budgets when you’re on a discovery or consult call. If you have a grasp of the available budget, you can tailor a proposal accordingly.

They then say they always offer three opportunities to work with them. The first is an asynchronous recording of a course or workshop, the second is a one-time engagement, and the third is repeated appearances.

“That’s really helpful because then the organization, you’re already planting that seed of how they can work with you on different levels, depending on their capacity and depending on their budget.”

And they advocate for having conversations about what you’re asking for and what you’re getting paid as a regular part of being in the industry.

“I know for some people that can be really uncomfortable, but the more we share it and the more we promote it, other people see it and we can shift the industry…When you’re asking your price, you’re asking your price for yourself, but you’re also setting a standard for others who look like you and show up with similar stories.”

Educational Consultation

What Evolve has found as they’ve worked with more people, is that often people are doing a mix of speaking and education, which is why they use the term, “educational consultation.”

“You’re consulting people, right? You’re giving them education. You’re consulting, you’re leaving them with knowledge. That’s still speaking. You’re still using your voice to make money. You’re still using your voice to impact the world.”

“I think just having speaking in the business was really having people think, TED Talk, thinking big stage. And what I want folks to understand is even if you’re having a one to two with a small business, that is still as powerful, and that’s still speaking for profit.”

They also value opportunities to observe other speakers, which they say is its own form of educational consultation. “Even if you’re just watching the physical way that people are doing it, it could just be so powerful and add to the lens of the way you can show up and speak and consult with folks.”

Asking for More

Erica jokes that she’s going to ask for lighting that moves with her at her next speaking engagement, which brings up a very real point about asking for what you need for people with darker skin, which may require different lighting scenarios than for lighter-skinned people.

Evolve says, “We’re talking about asking for more, asking for lighting, right? Because a lot of times they don’t know…Many of these fields have not been built for us, especially the speaking industry, so we’ve always got to melanate it and add a little bit of our vibe to create that capacity and create that space.”

Evolve adds that as a trans and gender non-conforming person, “I always have to put an emphasis there and make sure that the person who’s going to be introducing me has gotten that information as well.”

Erica adds that providing her own, and checking others’ pronouns is part of her responsibility as a cisgender person who is committed to creating environments that are welcoming and inclusive.

“If I make you get it right for me, you’ll get it right for somebody else. If I make you prioritize it for me, you’ll get it right for somebody else.”

Evolve also encourages people to advocate for themselves. “There’s some podcast episodes out there where I’ve let pronouns slide, because I’m just like, I didn’t want to correct them in that moment. But correct them, y’all…It’s an educational moment, and it could really help other folks who are listening to have that space.”

Commit to Speaking It

To take action, Evolve suggests starting with a daily affirmation.

“It could be something really simple, like I love you. But write it down and commit to saying it….Many people ask me what is the affirmation, and it literally is something positive that you will say to yourself every day whether you’re feeling good about it or not. When that tongue is feeling lazy, you’ll still say it. And you’ll still commit to it.”

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